Update 2018 08 04: To check and repair links, and to insert the trend line graph
Relating to History of Men’s Movement (and how to create a new social order), George wrote (not addressed to me):
Yes, I caught Rob & Hal recent pix, but my fave is Rob/Hal/Stoney/Chreastens(sp??) et al about two years ago in full regalia with chests at 150 psi…I suspect if will become an iconic pix when the history of the movement gets written up.
So clear something up for me. If u as Pres of F4J are seemingly distant from F4J judging by ur colour commentary, then who is the defacto operational head ( National Director??) and execitive of F4J who coordinates with Regional Directors(if I have position titles correct), assuming that any communication takes place.
I agree that national organizational requires “massive” funding, but it’s a chicken-and-egg situation in which funding also requires national organization.
Apparently, there was an effort several years ago to form national umbrella.How far did it get? Is there any documentation left that could be recycled in follow-on efforts? Who was involved and are they still active?Is anyone currently actively pursuing this concept (besides Brian Lee Johnson based on my understanding). And did anyone quantify what “massive” was in terms of actual amount?…
I am receiving copies of some of the messages that are being mailed out in your discussion thread and read some of those at times.
Not counting spam, I receive about 5,000 e-mail messages a month in relation with Fathers for Life. I am not able to read all of the messages I receive.
You write that “national organizational”, whatever that may mean, requires “massive” funding. It would seem that no one can determine or even only somewhat realistically assume that, unless he has some idea on what he needs that funding for. You must therefore have some fairly firm ideas on what it is you wish to address with respect to some specific issues and on what it is you wish to do about those issues. It’s too bad you can’t be more specific.
My professional background is in the field of work-systems analysis and design; in short, problem solving.
I assume that you want to use the massive funding you wished you had to solve some problems and that those are problems that are in place and prevent Canada, or the world, from being put back on a secure and constructive path.
Successful problem solving requires the completion of three major steps:
- Problem Recognition
That requires an understanding by a critical mass of people who are affected by a malfunctioning or failed system to agree on a few things, such as,
- A problem exists;
- A state of dissatisfaction resulting from the existence of the problem exists;
- The scope and context of the problem;
- The consequences of the problem if nothing will be done to solve it;
- The history of the problem, with a focus on what brought the problem into existence, and
- The will exists to solve or eradicate the problem.
- Solution Design
There are various methods by which the correct solution for a problem can be found. Generally I found that an iterative process of analysis and synthesis in a continual series of blue-sky sessions works best to identify feasible solutions. The outcome of that stage in the development process is an action plan for implementation. The action plan addresses what needs to be done and how it will be done to bring the state of things from an unsatisfactory to a satisfactory existence. The design for the required and desired solution requires a discussion of the nature and the scope of the solution and of what its required output is to be. Depending on what the system under analysis and investigation may be, the output may be anything from better-looking and more durable bricks to a better state of existence of a nation.In that step, too, when there is no full agreement by all involved that the will and the funding are in place to make things happen as intended, nothing much will be done, or a lot of time and other resources will be wasted by creating the wrong solutions for the wrong problems or perhaps even for problems that need to be created to fit the solution that has been devised.
- Solution Implementation and Maintenance
During that stage of the system development process the action plan will be implemented, along with a system for monitoring, feedback and control, for continued satisfactory operation, monitoring and correction of the system within acceptable deviations from the desired norm.
History of Mens’s Movement — Solving Consequences
The “movement” has not begun to understand the nature of the problem it wants to deal with. The main reason for that is that the majority of the people who are active to varying extents in the “movement” cannot see the forest for the trees that occupy their attention.
That is the primary cause of the lack of coordination of a critical mass of a sufficient number of people who are able to bring required changes about.
Some men in the “movement” (you are an example) feel that to get the “movement” coordinated is as difficult as herding cats. They also feel that the “women’s movement” is much better organized than the men’s “movement”. They fail to understand that organizing the “women’s movement” is just as difficult as it is to herd cats.
The fact is that there is no such thing as the women’s movement. There once was such a thing at different times. The last time was in the 1960s to -70s. Now the women’s movement is splintered into many different factions. The originators of the last wave of feminism gained some measure of control through their usurpation and control of the education system and curriculum, but they all are reaching retirement age (e.g.: Hillary Clinton), and soon they will all have faded away. Today’s young women regard old-style radical feminists (a.k.a. Marxist- or socialist feminists, or, more correctly, redfems) to be dinosaurs. However, enough of those dinosaurs are still in position of power (some of them sit at the Supreme Court of Canada) to be able to hold a firm control of things.
Feminist websites are declining in popularity at an accelerating rate (2018 08 04: There was a link to a graphic by Alexa that illustrated that. Unfortunately, I did not save a screen shot of it. Alexa, now controlled by Google, no longer makes that graphic available. The graphic following this paragraph is intended to be a substitute), while men’s and men’s-rights websites are steadily increasing in popularity as well as in number. The education curriculum is still somewhat firmly controlled by redfems. However, the feminist control of the education curriculum is waning.
A number of things have happened in the last 20 years or so:
- Feminism is declining as a political force;
- Men’s rights activists have failed to come to grips with what needs to be done to raise men’s status to where men are once more being appreciated and respected;
- No or extremely little social research has been done by men, virtually all that was done in recent decades was done by looking through a gender lens that favored women’s issues;
- Women’s suffering is largely a problem that doesn’t exist but receives much of society’s sympathy. Men’s suffering (e. g.: men live far shorter life spans than women do) is largely a problem that is very real but receives no sympathy at all, because society and even men themselves not only deny that it exists but are not even aware of its existence.
- Now as before, virtually all so-called men’s-rights activists are preoccupied with the injustices that the legal system has heaped and is heaping on them. That causes them to be unaware of social injustices and of serious, massive discrimination against men (e. g.: about 19 out of every 20 victims of job fatalities are men);
- An increasingly prominent international pro-family movement emerged of whom virtually all so-called men’s-rights activists know absolutely nothing or at best wish to have nothing to do with.
History of Men’s Movement — Literature
To all of you in this thread, what have you done to fully understand the nature of the problem you wish to deal with? How many of you know the writings of Daniel Amneus? Most of you appear to be Canadian. Have any of you read and understood “The Charter Revolution & The Court Party“, by F.L. Morton and Rainer Knopff (Broadview Press, 2000, ISBN 1-55111-089-X, 227 pages, soft cover, $22.95 (Can))? Who of you have read Robert Bork’s “Slouching Towards Gomorrah: Modern Liberalism and American Decline” (Excerpt) ? What about,
- Christina Hoff Sommers: Who Stole Feminism? How Women Have Betrayed Women (Simon and Schuster, New York, 1994, 320 pp., $23.00 US, $29.50 Canada; ISBN 0671-79424-8, hardbound.)
Review by Mary Lefkowitz
For various essays and letters by Christina Hoff Sommers check this.
- Christina Hoff Sommers, Ph.D. : The War Against Boys : How Misguided Feminism Is Harming Our Young Men (Hardcover – 251 pages (June 2000) Simon & Schuster; ISBN: 0684849569 ; US$20.00 at amazon.com) You’ll want to read an article by Christina Hoff Sommers in the Atlantic Monthly, based on her book.
If you have not read any of those books or any others like them, have you at least read most of what Angry Harry presents in Feminism For Male College Students: A Short Guide to the Truth ?
Many before you have taken me to task for stating that,
By insisting on the right to be divorced while demanding the right to shared parenting, shared-parenting advocates in essence resign themselves to being the losers in the war against the family. Their demands for shared parenting are nothing more than the negotiating, from the position of the conquered, of the terms of their surrender after the war against the family is almost over. (Source)
and I am fairly sure that some of you have no problems with taking me to task over that as well.
However, before you do that, let me know your answers to the questions I posed just above.
George, you mentioned that,
Apparently, there was an effort several years ago to form national umbrella.How far did it get? Is there any documentation left that could be recycled in follow-on efforts? Who was involved and are they still active?Is anyone currently actively pursuing this concept (besides Brian Lee Johnson based on my understanding). And did anyone quantify what “massive” was in terms of actual amount?
There were dozens of such effort over the years. Which one do you have in mind?
What do you mean by “How far did is get?”? How far? Measured in what terms?
Yes, there is documentation left, but why would you want to “recycle” documentation of failed efforts? If you wish to find out what that documentation is, you have to become familiar with the history of the men’s movement. Without that you cannot find out whom to ask for the documentation you wish to see.
What “concept” are you talking about?
Before anyone can “quantify what “massive” was in terms of actual amount?” you will have to specify what “massive” relates to and what you mean by “amount”.
There is a cheap and effective way to get things changed for the better. That is by becoming involved in politics, in service organizations, in town councils, in Little League, soccer and other sports organizations, in the education system and all other sectors of the bureaucracy (including the police and the judiciary), and in church organizations. That is what the feminists did, and that is what gave them their strangle-hold on everything. Men can do the same thing and get society changed from within all of its institutions, including the institution of the traditional nuclear family. As long as men’s rights activists don’t see the need for that and act accordingly, nothing will change for the better.
That does not require massive funding. It requires commitment and that we get men to stop complaining and have them instead put their shoulders to the wheels of the cart of our society, to get it out of the ruts it got stuck in.
Without a doubt, legal actions need to be taken, but no one will change our jurisprudence by fighting in court on what is essentially feminist home turf. We get the legal system we deserve. Change people’s opinions about men, and you will change society; everything else will adjust to fit in.
History of Men’s Movement — Consequences of doing nothing
By the way, a couple of days ago some young men (all grew up fatherless) who reside (with a couple or three women of similar age (all of those grew up fatherless as well) in one of the few crack (or crystal-meth) houses in our small community of Bruderheim (pop. about 1,280) stole our pick-up truck (they broke into the truck and pried out the ignition lock), took the truck for a wild ride through ditches, fences and fields two miles north of Bruderheim and buried it in a ditch, by hitting the approach to a farm driveway, head-on.
The truck is totaled, the canopy for the box got ripped off and lost somewhere along the way, the frame is visibly bent and the front-end pushed back right to the engine.
Well, some things from the truck can be salvaged. The battery is new and intact, and so are the tires. But at least they did not steal the good set of booster cables and the pair of work gloves I kept behind the driver’s seat. I’ll have to see whether the engine and transmission still work.
I estimate that the costs of theft, vandalism and damages created over the last ten years or so by those products of our novel child-raising experiment are now roughly in the order of about $150,000 for Bruderheim alone. That is a relatively small cost per capita, and I assume that on account of that the social engineers figure that our society can afford such a small tariff to pay for the consequences of the systematic deconstruction of our society.
However the real costs are far greater than that for targeted individuals, and they are much greater and much more serious for our nation. What was once one of the top-three-ranking nations of the developed nations ranks now in many respects at the bottom of the pile, while the average well-being of all developed nations is gradually sliding into total chaos.
Let me tell you the ways in which I love the brave-new world the feminist social engineers created for us. On second thought I better quit, so that you have enough time to read some of the books I mentioned.
- Remembrance : The status of men
- Logic, language, effective men’s-rights activism
- Feminist Propaganda Debunked
- Communism → second-wave feminism → social re-engineering
- Family courts solve divorce applications backlog
- Divorce causes escalating suicide rates
- The Hate Mongers – Hatred spread through propaganda
- Erin Pizzey interviewed by Dads on the Air
- Remembrance Day 2008